Comments on: Google vs. the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/ Media, Tech & Business Models Sun, 19 May 2013 19:17:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Google and the French press: a new entente? | Tech & Comms News http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31704 Google and the French press: a new entente? | Tech & Comms News Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:39:15 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31704 [...] this deal is a good one. First of all, both sides are relieved to avoid a law (see last Monday Note Google v the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario). A law declaring that snippets and links are to be paid-for would have been a serious step [...] [...] this deal is a good one. First of all, both sides are relieved to avoid a law (see last Monday Note Google v the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario). A law declaring that snippets and links are to be paid-for would have been a serious step [...]

]]> By: Google and the French press: a new entente? « WORLDPC.US http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31702 Google and the French press: a new entente? « WORLDPC.US Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:04:02 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31702 [...] this deal is a good one. First of all, both sides are relieved to avoid a law (see last Monday Note Google v the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario). A law declaring that snippets and links are to be paid-for would have been a serious step [...] [...] this deal is a good one. First of all, both sides are relieved to avoid a law (see last Monday Note Google v the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario). A law declaring that snippets and links are to be paid-for would have been a serious step [...]

]]> By: The Google Fund for the French Press | Monday Note http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31673 The Google Fund for the French Press | Monday Note Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:44:08 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31673 [...] this deal is a good one. First of all, both sides are relieved to avoid a law (see last Monday Note Google vs. the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario). A law declaring that snippets and links are to be paid-for would have been a serious step [...] [...] this deal is a good one. First of all, both sides are relieved to avoid a law (see last Monday Note Google vs. the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario). A law declaring that snippets and links are to be paid-for would have been a serious step [...]

]]> By: laurence Houdeville http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31612 laurence Houdeville Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:41:03 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31612 The most complex part of the debate is related to the current political context. Major corporations made the most of european tax laws which backlashed on them and tarnished their reputation. the Anglo saxon world embrases capitalism whereas the French pass moral judgments on corporate strategies. It's an intrinsic gap between the two cultures. Equality matters more than freedom. The most complex part of the debate is related to the current political context. Major corporations made the most of european tax laws which backlashed on them and tarnished their reputation.
the Anglo saxon world embrases capitalism whereas the French pass moral judgments on corporate strategies. It’s an intrinsic gap between the two cultures. Equality matters more than freedom.

]]> By: KenC http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31506 KenC Wed, 23 Jan 2013 04:55:05 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31506 "combined revenue of €2.5bn – €3bn but each paid only on average €4m in corporate taxes instead of €500m (a rough 20% to 25% tax rate estimate)" I'm confused, in the US, corporate taxes are paid upon profits, not revenues. Are you referring to sales taxes or VATs as opposed to corporate taxes? I have often heard Apple officers say that iTunes is run at roughly break-even, implying almost no profits. I can't imagine the other music stores making much at all. "In the UK for instance, Google made £2.5bn (€3bn or $4bn) in 2011, but paid only £6m (€7.1m or $9.5m) in corporate taxes." Ah, now I see, you are in fact using revenues because Google did NOT make $4B in profit in the UK, when it only made $12.3B gross profit worldwide. "in France, the tax base would grow to €1.5bn revenue and about €500m profit; that could translate €150m in corporate tax alone instead of the mere €5.5m currently paid by Google. (And I’m not counting the 20% VAT that would also apply.)" Thanks, that's better, I see how you got the numbers, but I still think the opening paragraphs are confusing. “combined revenue of €2.5bn – €3bn but each paid only on average €4m in corporate taxes instead of €500m (a rough 20% to 25% tax rate estimate)”

I’m confused, in the US, corporate taxes are paid upon profits, not revenues. Are you referring to sales taxes or VATs as opposed to corporate taxes? I have often heard Apple officers say that iTunes is run at roughly break-even, implying almost no profits. I can’t imagine the other music stores making much at all.

“In the UK for instance, Google made £2.5bn (€3bn or $4bn) in 2011, but paid only £6m (€7.1m or $9.5m) in corporate taxes.”

Ah, now I see, you are in fact using revenues because Google did NOT make $4B in profit in the UK, when it only made $12.3B gross profit worldwide.

“in France, the tax base would grow to €1.5bn revenue and about €500m profit; that could translate €150m in corporate tax alone instead of the mere €5.5m currently paid by Google. (And I’m not counting the 20% VAT that would also apply.)”

Thanks, that’s better, I see how you got the numbers, but I still think the opening paragraphs are confusing.

]]> By: Tom Foremski http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31498 Tom Foremski Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:00:03 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31498 The French analysis that it's the data work performed by its citizens that constitutes the core treasure trove is mistaken. An online advertisement can work with or without that data. Google makes it seem as if it's its expertise at showing the right ad at the right time to the right person that is key to its success but that's largely a red herring, just like its self-driving cars. Just consider the huge number of ad impressions required to result in conversions, a number that continues to rise, to see the fallacy of that argument. Big data is just that: huge amounts of data. Google is pretty bad at monetizing that data. What makes Google successful is scale. Scale is what keeps competitors away and the scale needed to succeed continually ratchets up causing even giants like Yahoo and AOL to struggle. What hope is there for European companies? Its possible we could see nationalism rise against US companies and each country operate its own commercial infrastructure. It's not that difficult. The French analysis that it’s the data work performed by its citizens that constitutes the core treasure trove is mistaken. An online advertisement can work with or without that data. Google makes it seem as if it’s its expertise at showing the right ad at the right time to the right person that is key to its success but that’s largely a red herring, just like its self-driving cars. Just consider the huge number of ad impressions required to result in conversions, a number that continues to rise, to see the fallacy of that argument. Big data is just that: huge amounts of data. Google is pretty bad at monetizing that data. What makes Google successful is scale. Scale is what keeps competitors away and the scale needed to succeed continually ratchets up causing even giants like Yahoo and AOL to struggle. What hope is there for European companies?

Its possible we could see nationalism rise against US companies and each country operate its own commercial infrastructure. It’s not that difficult.

]]> By: James Robertson http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31465 James Robertson Mon, 21 Jan 2013 18:28:09 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31465 Perhaps Google should just stop linking to the complaining media sites for a month, and ask them how they like that state of affairs. Perhaps Google should just stop linking to the complaining media sites for a month, and ask them how they like that state of affairs.

]]> By: Muigai http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31456 Muigai Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:17:43 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31456 Schmidt has a moral duty to maximize profits and channel those funds to shareholders, if he can (legally) keep as much of those profits out of the maws of bureaucratic parasites then more power to him. Schmidt has a moral duty to maximize profits and channel those funds to shareholders, if he can (legally) keep as much of those profits out of the maws of bureaucratic parasites then more power to him.

]]> By: Suyog Mody http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31454 Suyog Mody Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:10:50 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31454 Seems like two different issues that have been combined into 1 thing - 1. Tax 2. Partnership with publishers Clean and clear way to solve this (and I hope thats what they do) is pay the tax at local rates and avoid all loopholes. Separately, they should allow publishers to opt-out of indexing (you can do that already) but make it more explicit. I think its ridiculous that Google has to pay off publishers country-by-country just because the publishers are not able to innovate by themselves in the new digital world. Seems like two different issues that have been combined into 1 thing -
1. Tax
2. Partnership with publishers

Clean and clear way to solve this (and I hope thats what they do) is pay the tax at local rates and avoid all loopholes. Separately, they should allow publishers to opt-out of indexing (you can do that already) but make it more explicit.

I think its ridiculous that Google has to pay off publishers country-by-country just because the publishers are not able to innovate by themselves in the new digital world.

]]> By: Aktuelles 21. Januar 2013 — neunetz.com http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31451 Aktuelles 21. Januar 2013 — neunetz.com Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:09:07 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31451 [...] Google vs. the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario | Monday Note [...] [...] Google vs. the press: avoiding the lose-lose scenario | Monday Note [...]

]]> By: isodee http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31444 isodee Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:00:42 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31444 Not to be a nit-picker, but one thing always ticks me off: "...had a combined revenue of €2.5bn – €3bn but each paid only on average €4m in corporate taxes instead of €500m (a rough 20% to 25% tax rate estimate)" Companies don't pay taxes based on their revenue, they pay taxes based on their profits. Statement like yours basically says that the companies mentioned don't have any costs whatsoever when doing business in Europe. Not to be a nit-picker, but one thing always ticks me off:

“…had a combined revenue of €2.5bn – €3bn but each paid only on average €4m in corporate taxes instead of €500m (a rough 20% to 25% tax rate estimate)”

Companies don’t pay taxes based on their revenue, they pay taxes based on their profits. Statement like yours basically says that the companies mentioned don’t have any costs whatsoever when doing business in Europe.

]]> By: Fafnir http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/01/20/google-vs-the-press-avoiding-the-lose-lose-scenario/#comment-31434 Fafnir Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:36:43 +0000 http://www.mondaynote.com/?p=5251#comment-31434 Are you talking of two different subjects here (the press and the data about users)? About the press and in general the digital (numeric) content the EU countries should first make their legislation in order, in particular vis à vis Luxembourg for example. About the data by users this is something so important and concerning the whole world that should be the main focus of all the summits like G8, G20 and every place where the humanity chat about global concerns. Are you talking of two different subjects here (the press and the data about users)?
About the press and in general the digital (numeric) content the EU countries should first make their legislation in order, in particular vis à vis Luxembourg for example.
About the data by users this is something so important and concerning the whole world that should be the main focus of all the summits like G8, G20 and every place where the humanity chat about global concerns.

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